By Steve Hartwell

February 13, 2009 11:22 PM | Link to this

To Pam - I agree the anti-smoking junk science ban is 100 % wrong, but, Pam, where were you 10 years ago when people like me tried to tell people like you that it would happen to you one day too, and, you did nothing to help stop it 10 years ago when it still could be stopped. - steve h. wwwtobaccosmokersofcanadaca

By Rachelle

February 13, 2009 10:58 PM | Link to this

My works usually orders two or three times a week from Dugout Deli and were sad to here they are closing. We love their food, their quick deliveries and their good prices. I promise you that we will really, really miss them and hate that they are having to close :(

By Pam

February 13, 2009 7:09 PM | Link to this

I find it appalling that the people who have absolutely NO MONEY involved in a hospitality industry business continue to feel they have the right to their opinions as to how these businesses operate. They do NOT. The people who own such businesses started losing money DAY ONE of the ban. The economic downturn in Ohio did not start January 1, 2007 but those of us who own a hospitality industry business DID start our economic downturn then. Have you any idea how much money we’ve all lost? How many of our businesses have closed? Do you have any idea how many businesses are impacted by our losses? Do you even care? How dare you all act as if you’re still entitled to an opinion over our businesses. You anti-smokers voted us out of business because you whined about wanting it all your way and yet where are you all who wanted to patronize our businesses? No where. The papers reported that more Ohioans are drinking more than ever..and they’re doing it at home. Has anyone stopped to think what impact THAT has had? So drinking (and smoking) at home..how are the domestic violence stats? An AOL article reported more DUIs where there are bans..surprise, surprise NO ONE to cut them off at home (not if you’re a smart spouse-you stay out of their way) and no one to keep them from getting into the car. I am so disgusted with this law and you arrogant people who still think you’re entitled to our businesses. Then YOU BUY THEM!!! And YOU try to pay your bills with no smoking customers anymore. I’m furious. Indiana just passed a state-wide ban. Casinos and bars are exempt. That means our “level playing fields” to the north, south, east and west understand that these places would go out of businesses if not allowed to smoke. Way to go, Ohio. And don’t tell me to move. I’ve lived here all my life as have my children and grandchildren. We CHOSE to open a business in Ohio. YOU MOVE.

By manbearpig

February 13, 2009 5:21 PM | Link to this

I live in the south burbs and I only go to Dayton when I absolutely have to. The roads are in horrible shape and I do not feel safe as I stop at any traffic light. Dayton has many many problems none of which are being addressed. Too bad for this diner going out of business, but if you are depending on traffic from such a seasonal sport to sustain you, well you won’t go too far with that.

By George

February 13, 2009 5:16 PM | Link to this

Erin! Say it isn’t so! What will we do without our Med Veg Salads?? Best of luck, and hope you can open again when the economy turns around.

By WTF

February 13, 2009 5:08 PM | Link to this

GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!! DOWNTOWN DAYTON IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!! I DON’T KNOW WHY ANYONE WOULD GO DOWNTOWN. UNLESS YOU NEED MUGGED!!!! UNLESS YOU WANT TO SEE POOR HOMELESS PEOPLE.

By arniez

February 13, 2009 4:49 PM | Link to this

God, I love this! I guess I should not have criticized John in the beginning. I hate to see a business close, especially a bar! I still love Downtown Dayton and look forward to my dinners at Cold Beer and Cheeseburgers and then heading to a Bombers Game at the new Arena!!!

By History Buff

February 13, 2009 4:28 PM | Link to this

I’ve not gone any where in Ohio since the smoking ban. Not just ‘not me’, but most I know no longer spend in Ohio. The voters voted to RULE private business and believed the hype that it would increase business. State stats show that was a lie. Other states serve food and it’s good!

By Matty theBartender

February 13, 2009 4:15 PM | Link to this

Erin- Great food, Great times… I’ll always remember how good those “Matty Phatty’s” were.. Hot-pepper relish,the best meats/cheeses. Always top quality. Always. Sorry to hear about the closing man. Dugout Deli will be remembered.

By Deez Nuts

February 13, 2009 3:54 PM | Link to this

Businesses come and go, it’s happened for hundreds of years. The location was in a toilet area. Who wants to go watch a p**s-ant Dragons game anyway? Sorry if people are losing jobs, but get realistic. Just b/c you open a business, doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed for life. Hope you had the time of your life.

By Starcastic

February 13, 2009 3:46 PM | Link to this

Classsssssy. Thanks for posting your weekly special in the somebody-else-going-out-of-business message thread.

By Patty

February 13, 2009 3:46 PM | Link to this

If the traffic is bad, then Dayton obviously is not dead. There are some really great places downtown. Not just the Oregon District. There are locally owned businesses that serve good for for reasonable prices downtown. Take a chance, venture downtown and look around.

By Barry

February 13, 2009 2:50 PM | Link to this

I wonder how much of business leaving downtown Dayton is due to the fact that getting into and out of downtown Dayton is getting harder all the time with the never ending construction detours, road closures, and highway closures. Truly the city of Dayton is the “you can’t get there from here” city. Even my detours have detours now a days. If it isn’t close to route 35, and after 7 in the evening I do not go downtown because of the traffic

By Jessica

February 13, 2009 2:34 PM | Link to this

Mr. Bonkers you are in fact Bonkers. This is a very sad day for me. I can’t believe some of the comments either. I don’t think anyone understands how much these private business owners have had to endure during this awful economic climate. These are real people with families trying to compete against the Potbellys and the Paneras. I know for a fact that the Dugout Deli’s food far surpassed either of these “chains” food in quality. I will truly miss this Deli and I wish that everyone would make more room in their life to support locally owned and operated businesses.Good Luck erin in your future endeavors.

By ron rollins

February 13, 2009 2:26 PM | Link to this

I liked the Deli and know Erin, and will miss it even tho I didn’t get to eat there as often as I would’ve liked to. It was a good place with good food, friendly service and a sunny atmosphere. A nice little business. I’m sorry to hear it’s closing. The economy is rough. Business is always hard, even in better times. I know Erin and his friends and family and co-workers tried their darnedest to keep it going and make it good. I’ve never faced a decision like the one Erin found himself having to make; I imagine it’s awful and hard. I applaud him for doing his best. Meanwhile, good news that the Flying Dog is still flying. Downtown is starting to come back, and when it does Erin will still be there to help it get better.

By Listen To The Owner

February 13, 2009 2:13 PM | Link to this

Thanks to Erin O’Neill who already clarified on February 13, 2009 at 11:47 AM : As the owner of the Dugout Deli I can assure you that the smoking ban played zero part in the closing of the deli. The lack of sales due to the current economic climate is what caused us to close. However feel free to hi-jack any story so you cant rant about our personal issues.Even if it is not related to the story you are commenting on.

By Patty

February 13, 2009 2:13 PM | Link to this

Julie, I agree shopping would be a great addition to downtown and is desperately needed, especially for people that work and live downtown. There are low cost things to do downtown. Check them out you will enjoy.

By emily

February 13, 2009 2:12 PM | Link to this

This is America and the majority rules - the people of Ohio voted for the ban: as they say, love it or leave it!!

By Mr Bonkers

February 13, 2009 2:09 PM | Link to this

I for one think the Greene is awesome. I’d go as far as to say that it already has a richer sense of history than the entire city of Dayton. As a matter of fact, I think Dayton should now be considered a suburb of Beavercreek.

By keyz

February 13, 2009 1:57 PM | Link to this

It was me that mentioned Mendelsohn’s closed. I could be wrong…I no longer live in the area, but do visit very frequently. When driving through downtown last week, I thought I had seen a for sale sign on Mendelsohn’s. If I made an error, I am sorry.

By Julie

February 13, 2009 1:51 PM | Link to this

Other than conducting business with the courts or going to a Dragon’s game, most people have no reason to go downtown. If there was decent shopping or other interesting, low cost things to do, businesses might fare better.

By Danny

February 13, 2009 1:45 PM | Link to this

Yeah, you cant smoke but being a welfare gerbil that spawns eight new ones at taxpayer expense and then hides behind the ‘biological rights’ argument - that is OK!! And us smokers are bad - you people need to get a grip.

By Sole

February 13, 2009 1:43 PM | Link to this

To fargo: yes as a matter of fact I did go to Dugout. What’s your point?

By fargo

February 13, 2009 1:34 PM | Link to this

All of you responding: smokers, non-smokers, pro-downtown, anti-downtown, love-the-Greene, hate-the-Greene, lives in Centerville, Beavercreek, Kettering, Huber Heights, Trotwood or anywhere else. Did any of you ever spend a dollar at the Dugout Deli? I didn’t think so.

By David

February 13, 2009 1:31 PM | Link to this

Did I miss something? Was Dugout Deli a smokers’ haven before the ban? Is that why smokers stopped going there?

By Sheryl Cowers

February 13, 2009 1:16 PM | Link to this

Not everyone lives in Centerville, Bob. Some don’t have to drive 10 miles to go there. Why post if you have nothing to actually add?

By sole

February 13, 2009 1:16 PM | Link to this

There are a lot of great places downtown, and to keep them open people should make a choice to go there and spend money instead of choosing to go to another chain restaurants, fast food, or movie theaters, or even worse the Greene-the fake downtown with wanna be historical building and corporate businesses.

By Bob540

February 13, 2009 1:12 PM | Link to this

I seldom go out to eat or drink (non-smoker, if it matters). Prefer to cook/drink at home for fraction of the cost. If I eat out, its just down the road in Centerville. Why drive 10 miles to get a sandwich?

By Sheryl Cowers

February 13, 2009 1:12 PM | Link to this

I don’t know who to believe, the actual owner of the Dugout Deli (I’ll make it a point to stop there) or painfultruth, who has it all figured out even if he knows nothing of the actual situation. It’s a shame another business has to close. It’s also too bad some people don’t get it so they keep blaming the same thing over and over again without slightest hint of what actually happened.

By Patty

February 13, 2009 1:06 PM | Link to this

“Too bad they didn’t stay open long enough to try to market to the CareSource building.” The Dugout Deli is not the only place downtown. Many are already occupying the CareSource building and besides the cafeteria there are other choices right there by CareSource. There are lots of people from the suburbs that come downtown. Even people from Oakwood, Beavercreek, Kettering, Centerville. Not everyone has the perception that Dayton is not safe and a dead town. Learn to think for yourself and you will find that there are lots of neat places downtown.

By Hoboman32

February 13, 2009 1:05 PM | Link to this

Ok, so I used to smoke but hated going to bars trying to breath.Smoking outside hasen’t hurt anything. Checkpoints have been around forever, whichever douschbag was talking about that, moron maybe if people took taxi’s and didn’t drink and drive and kill people we wouldn’t need checkpoints. I don’t understand how this country is turning into a socialist one? Live your life, this country was bought and paid for before all of us were even thought of, you wanna b***h then move, get the F out.

By GP

February 13, 2009 12:56 PM | Link to this

To the nucklehead who blames todays woes on Ronald Reagan who hasn’t been in office since 1989 , that’s 20 years ago you idiot. Leave it to a liberal to blame a president from 2 decades ago for today’s economy.

By Matt

February 13, 2009 12:56 PM | Link to this

Dugout Deli is a great place to eat. I eat at least every two weeks. It is sad to see them go. It has nothing to do with the smoking issue. Dugout Deli is a carry out and delivery. Once again sorry to see you go Erin

By Daytonian

February 13, 2009 12:53 PM | Link to this

AGAIN, why is the DDN always soliciting comments on any story with a negative bend of DAYTON?? Is DDN management covertly racist??

By Phil Dayton

February 13, 2009 12:43 PM | Link to this

get off the smoking.it likely had nothing to do with this place closing. its service and quality that usually determine these things.

By WTF

February 13, 2009 12:39 PM | Link to this

NON SMOKERS SUCK ANY WAY. What did smoking have to do with this article?

By WTF

February 13, 2009 12:35 PM | Link to this

NON-SMOKERS

By sole

February 13, 2009 12:18 PM | Link to this

The CareSource might not done anything good for the business either, since the employees have thier own cafeteria, their own parking, etc. All they would do is drive to work from the burbs and leave after 5pm. Burb people perceive downtown as sketchy place and prefer boring franchise food. The only time they come downtown is for the theater and maybe urban nights. The Deli is great, but it is all about downtown perception and the majority in Dayton that would rather go for anything safe and franchised vs independently owned business which really provides better food and service. Really is a shame.

By sole

February 13, 2009 12:18 PM | Link to this

The CareSource might not done anything good for the business either, since the employees have thier own cafeteria, their own parking, etc. All they would do is drive to work from the burbs and leave after 5pm. Burb people perceive downtown as sketchy place and prefer boring franchise food. The only time they come downtown is for the theater and maybe urban nights. The Deli is great, but it is all about downtown perception and the majority in Dayton that would rather go for anything safe and franchised vs independently owned business. Really is a shame.

By Teresa

February 13, 2009 12:09 PM | Link to this

To painfultruth: You are rude to other posters and your hyperbole adds nothing to the discussion. Personally, the pay cut I took a few years ago plus the rapid increase in the cost of living the past year is has greatly reduced my entertainment budget. Wish I could eat & drink out more often. It’s nice wearing my coat into a bar on cold nights and not leaving it in the car so it doesn’t reek of cigarette smoke at the end of an evening. Sorry to read of the closing of Dugout Deli.

By Sam

February 13, 2009 12:09 PM | Link to this

The smoking ban probably didn’t have an impact on the Deli closing; being in downtown Dayton though, likely did.

By MrD

February 13, 2009 12:08 PM | Link to this

Maybe they should move from where they’re at and get closer to main street. Walking down past Memorial Hall is like walking into a wasteland. Move to where that RockStar deli was and be right around the corner from the Victoria, accessible to 5/3 Bank people and Caresource people (of course 5/3 will be moving to 3rd/Main.

By Reverendcrash

February 13, 2009 12:06 PM | Link to this

Which came first the recession or the ban? Another curiosity is if there is NO SAFE LEVEL and employees are required to serve Patrons on Patios, keeping in mind THERE are NO Safe Levels seems a little contradictory wouldn’t you say? On the other hand if the argument is parts per million per exposure, there already exists indoor air quality equipment that makes indoor air cleaner than outdoor air.Oh what Tangled Web you weave when first you practise to deceive.

By MrD

February 13, 2009 11:59 AM | Link to this

It’s a shame there hasn’t been enough business. Has nothing to do with smokers. There’s a lack of people downtown and lack of other businesses and foot traffic past the place. Too bad they didn’t stay open long enough to try to market to the CareSource building. Those employees are just a block and a half away.

By big burrito

February 13, 2009 11:58 AM | Link to this

How did a deli (who probably did more business with takeout)closing turn into a debate on smoking/nonsmoking? It was good food but in my opinion bad location (downtown)And someone mentioned earlier that Mendelsons had closed? Saw Heather and Sandy yesterday and business is booming…

By mikey

February 13, 2009 11:57 AM | Link to this

smoke em if ya got em

By smoking ban helped bars in Kettering?

February 13, 2009 11:51 AM | Link to this

What? I don’t know 1 bar that was helped by the ban (and I frequent quite a few in Kettering as I know the owners). In fact, many have given up on the ban and are allowing smoking again.

By Fed Up

February 13, 2009 11:48 AM | Link to this

THe smoking ban is only art of the isssue whay people aren’t going out to bars and eateries. Factor in the fact that we are turning into a socialist state were we can be stopped without probable cause at a checkpoint to see if we have been drinking or breaking the law in some other manner. Call these what you want, but for a police officer to stop someone without probable cause is unconstitutional. Was the person, weaving? speeding? driving recklessy? Why are we bing stopped. It is borderline profiling. Just the name “checkpoint” should make people think of a communist country.

By Erin O'Neill

February 13, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this

As the owner of the Dugout Deli I can assure you that the smoking ban played zero part in the closing of the deli. The lack of sales due to the current economic climate is what caused us to close. However feel free to hi-jack any story so you cant rant about our personal issues.Even if it is not related to the story you are commenting on.

By 0_o?

February 13, 2009 11:44 AM | Link to this

Really? Look this story is not about smoking (which I do). However a quick note, Whilst most of you sleep the barss that don’t loose ppl are allowing them to smoke in in their establishments and nothing is done about it. Now back to the point. I wonder if it would be possible for the Dug Out to open for the season? I do hate to see it go.

By April

February 13, 2009 11:44 AM | Link to this

Non-smoking/smoking has nothing to do with it. If you haven’t noticed many places are going out of business. People can’t afford simple luxuries. Jobs are leaving Dayton and so are people. I work in Dayton. I don’t like going out if I don’t have to. I always think I’m gonna get mugged (someone was mugged right outside our building in broad daylight about 3 months ago).

By Patty

February 13, 2009 11:36 AM | Link to this

And smoking is coming back. Congress passed the SCHIP bill, which is health care for children, it will be funded by taxes on tobacco products. For the health of the children please take up smoking. We need 24 million new smokers to fund the SCHIP program. If you care about the children and their health care needs, please please take up smoking. Millions of children need health care they won’t get it without your help. Please tell your friends to smoke or at least buy tobacco products.

By nordine

February 13, 2009 11:33 AM | Link to this

If the smoking ban hurt the bar business, why was there an increase in applications for alcohol licenses after the ban? Every day I read comments it’s always liberals, environmentalists, atheists and gays who are to blame for everything. In fact, the truth is that Ronald Reagan and his conservative followers are responsible for the economic mess we’re in that has resulted in the closure of bars and restaurants (and millions out of work and the runaway military-industrial complex.)

By LIES

February 13, 2009 11:31 AM | Link to this

PAINFUL TRUTH: I think you are full of crap. None of the Bars in Beavercreek or Kettering area have suffered a bit. If anything, they are more crowded. If your bars business dropped by 50%, then you must have only had 2-4 people inside to begin with. If you have a good business people will come regardless of the smoking ban.

By Aaron

February 13, 2009 11:28 AM | Link to this

As an independent contractor who works for various resturants, I say the turn down in the economy has way more to with the woes resturants are having.

By keyz

February 13, 2009 11:27 AM | Link to this

I worked in downtown Dayton very close to the Dugout Deli and the Dragons for many many years. The business I worked for left downtown Dayton, and Mendelsohn’s is now gone. It seems as if patrons are leaving the downtown area. It’s sad. I loved the Dugout Deli though…good and quick food in a decent price range.

By luvmorons

February 13, 2009 11:25 AM | Link to this

hey painfultruth, if you hate it so much you can go ahead and leave. This ain’t Cuba, nobodys stopping you. Also, the ban is happening during a recession. Look at the stats from California and NYC after they banned smoking years ago. Almost every restaurant increased profits.

By Buckeye

February 13, 2009 11:24 AM | Link to this

I don’t understand John, why? Could it be they are all out enjoying life with their families? These would be the ones they love enough so that the short term buzz from nicotine is not worth endangering their families’ health. Or with all of the bailouts that are so prevalent nowadays, are you suggesting that nonsmokers bail out the restaurants in economically challenged areas?

By painfultruth

February 13, 2009 11:23 AM | Link to this

Arniez, you know nothing. If you weren’t in this business area, you’re spouting off hot air without fact as foundation. Read my post above. Blockhead.

By Andrew

February 13, 2009 11:22 AM | Link to this

I second that Arniez. Bars may struggle more with the smoking ban but I think people should look outside of the smoking ban for the blame of restaurant closures.

By painfultruth

February 13, 2009 11:20 AM | Link to this

John, that was their statement, not their goal. The smoking ban has crushed the bar and restaraunt industry in Ohio. I know, as I had direct investments in 3 operations. I sold my ownership the minute I knew the ban was proposed, and the current owners are nearly bankrupt. When business drops over 50% due to the implementation of the ban, and it did beginning the day of enforcement, once again the people that promised better business just disappeared. Welcome to the USSA. We’re now seeing socialism as a tidal wave, and the government will make all our decisions for us. Sieg Heil!

By arniez

February 13, 2009 11:18 AM | Link to this

Why do people keep throwing in the smoking issue… Get off it, folks, the smoking ban is not to blame for all the world’s woes as you would have people believe. Personally, I go out much more since the ban. There was nothing worse that having to try to choke down my food or beer while gasping for air!

By John

February 13, 2009 11:14 AM | Link to this

Why aren’t the non smokers bailing these restaurants out?